Weapons Points Modifiers: why?

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Which is the superior weapon?

STG44
13
59%
BAR
7
32%
Both are equally good (or bad)
2
9%
Don't know
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 22
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Weapons Points Modifiers: why?

Postby Cpt Ukulele » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:26 pm

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UPDATE (Sept 19): In the context of this thread, the poll on the STG/BAR is up. Please take a moment to participate, and base your answers on the characteristics of the guns, as described notably in Enigma's test page (many thanks for doing it). It's not about which gun you prefer, but which one should be a more effective weapon overall, based on their characteristics (damage, magazine size, rate of fire, recoil, reload time). Thank you.

****************************************

I've been wondering about that stuff for oh, a long time now. I haven't seen any comment on that anywhere. Today, June 12th, is a good day to ask:

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Shouldn't all corresponding weapons in each class have the same modifier? If not, do these really make sense? Why would a kill with a STG44 be worth more points than a kill with a BAR, when the German weapon has a larger clip and a somewhat shorter reload time? Why, why, WHY?... Can these values be even modified, or are they the same for every HLstatsX server?
Last edited by Cpt Ukulele on Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rommel » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:41 pm

I think the pistols should be 2 if you ask me.
The bazooka guns should be 1.5
I'm fine with the MG' the 42 shoots more and deserves .05 less ;p
And the bar and stg should be reversed.
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Postby Phyrehawk » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:09 am

So should teh c96 and the carbine imho. ::hates that freaking stupid machine pistol-like c96::

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Postby Boslap » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:38 am

Well the bar is more accurate than the stg44(the recoil is horrible on this too)... and the carbine is more accurate than the c96... I dunno the difference the two pistols... rarely weild the colt so...
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Postby Cpt Ukulele » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:05 am

Any more comments? Should I try to make the "WHY?" in the picture even more cheesy to elicit some reaction?

All right, I've been looking at other servers' stats. From what I've seen - please correct me if I'm wonrg - , what we're using are the default settings. Some servers use other modifiers, so it appears to be possible to adjust them, though I don't know how easy it is.

Boslap, I'm pretty sure the accuracy and recoil for the BAR and STG44 are similar, if not identical. In any case, would the BAR be slightly more accurate or with slightly less recoil, it still doesn't make up for the advantages of the STG. With the BAR as it is now, I routinely need almost half a clip to get a kill. Of course, after that it's better to forget how efficient the BAR was in 1.3... Yes Source is a different game. With an STG, it' more like almost a third of a clip for a kill. Do the math (sort of): with the STG you have a chance (and I mean a good one) to take on a group of enemies at the same time. With a BAR, unless you get lucky, forget it.

I'd have to comment on the C96 vs. Carabine too, but it might be premature at this point.

Since web stats seems to be here to stay (cf. Doom's recent sticky), do we want to take the time to discuss the weapons modifiers, possibly to make the stats fairer? Or does nobody care, or think stats are good enough as they are now? This can of worms: ready to be opened or better kept closed?
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Postby Rommel » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:07 am

So my opinion doesn't count?
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Postby Cpt Ukulele » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:41 am

Eh? :roll: I never said it didn't count, of course it does. Though, now that you make me think of it, it probably has less weight than others' given the short time you've been playing Source. Yes, that's what you get for not reading my post.

I was just hoping to get more comments, especially from people in a position to change the modifiers (if it's out of the question, there's no point in discussing it) and from self-professed statswhores.
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Postby Rommel » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:20 pm

I'm not a stat whore...I bow out of this topic...I am number one for bazooka kills though and I have only been playing a few days ;p
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Postby Gin Soaked Boy » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:22 pm

Rommel wrote:I am number one for bazooka kills though


:? :? :? .

(ok I know the above was posted before this, but lets pretend it wasn't)

About the point modifier... most make sense but others don't.

Here is my take on the point modifiers Ukulele has circled.

Make sense...

The STG44 is less accurate than the BAR.
C96 is more of a pray and spray, M1 is pretty accurate.
MG42 is MUUUCH better than .30 Cal for sure.

Don't make sense...

The Colt is much better than the P38.
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Postby Major Catastrophe » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:14 pm

Actually, I find the STG much more accurate than the BAR. I can't remember who it was, but somebody compared shooting the BAR to wrestling a bag of live cats. I agree.
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Postby Rommel » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:23 pm

Major Catastrophe wrote:Actually, I find the STG much more accurate than the BAR. I can't remember who it was, but somebody compared shooting the BAR to wrestling a bag of live cats. I agree.


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Postby Bib Fortuna » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:16 pm

Back on this subject, it's no wonder Advent is so high in stats with that crap... the modifiers for those zooks and secondary guns are among the highest. Zook secondary higher than the Thompson? I think not.

Zook primary = 2.0 or 1.75
Zook secondary = 1.2 (carbine is already, fix the c96)
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Postby Rommel » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:55 pm

Well you know I noticed something else during my two weeks of zook pwnage.

My rank was lower when I played during the day vs playing late night.

I'm not talking a small amount. When i played during the day I reached 100-200 (bad) I noticed when I played at night I could get my rank from 200 to 20ish...

Just saying ;p
And I think the zook modifiers are fine.


While on the subject of modifiers...
I also noticed under a players kills for a weapon that the numbers were off. While in my two weeks of whoring I had many challengers trying to take the award away so after the award updated I would write down my total zook kills, my challengers and then any time during the day I could know with a deal of accuracy how many more I needed.

This relates because I soon noticed the number the award was coming up with was off with the number the personal stats showed. So I started dividing my totals by the modifier which gave a closer total. Not exact, if you want the correct number you need to divide by 1.9 for the bazooka. Each weapon is different though. So to get the number for others you need to divide your personal number by the number in the top weapon ranking if your listed.

My personal says 4,484 bazooka kills, the top weapons says 2,368 bazooka kills. Divide 4484 by 2368 and you get 1.89.

Am I making since?

Real life example...
I wrote down my total number of zook kills as reported in the personal stats before playing, it said 4484.
I killed 100 people with my zook today (not really since I haven't played today)
My personal stats now say 4674

The math:
4674
-4484
-------
190
/1.9
------
100


Some how I still feel like I am kinda on topic...

UPDATE:
In regard to modifiers helping Advent...He's just a h4x.
He doesn't play his number one account till his other beats it, which it currently isn't at number 3. On both account he only has about 550 "kills" with the zook and 300-450 with the c96 and about 125 flag caps on each.

Like I said above math needs to be done if your not listed in the top weapon stats. His actual C96 kills is around 250-300 and his zook is 73-87.

The modifiers help yes, but he keeps his K:D high and TK's low. If I just kept my TK's down I'd probably be number one. If I could rid 170 of those TK's I'd have 5,100 more points.

Advent isn't number one because the zook modifiers or the c96 modifiers, he's number one because he is good at killing the n00b enemy not dieing. He's actually number 3 since he isn't playing the number one so chill.
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Postby Enigma » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:41 am

After playing the Carbine for quite some time, I agree with giving it less points per kill. It's accuracy far outweighs the C96 at range. I'm not sure if there is any difference in clip size between the two guns however.

As far as the difference between the bar/stg, I agree with you Ukulele. I don't use the bar enough to really be much of a help here, nor the pistols.

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Postby Rommel » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:58 am

The C96 is more deadly at close range though as it shoots super fast and has a rather big clip to spray and pray. A carbine can be as deadly close range as a C96 spraying and prayin' but only in then hands of a experienced user who can shoot fast like you and myself.

I think the numbers are fine. (More points for pistol kills ;p)
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