Weapons Points Modifiers: why?

All questions and comments about player stats should be addressed here.

Which is the superior weapon?

STG44
13
59%
BAR
7
32%
Both are equally good (or bad)
2
9%
Don't know
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 22
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Postby Bobby » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:05 pm

I agree with the carbine lower than the C96. As Enigma points out, the
carbine is much more accurate, and does more damage per hit. Reload
times are relatively identical, although the C96 has a larger clip. The
0.30 difference is too large though.

On the BAR and stg44, I find the BAR to be more accurate - it has less
recoil. The stg44 has a larger clip. Reload times seemed the same. I'd
give the BAR a slightly lower multiplier, 0.05 - not the 0.15 that's there
now.

I don't find much difference between the two pistols. I'd have them at the
same multipliers. 1.50 seems appropriate... but you can't really have
the C96 at 1.50 as well - it's clearly superior to a pistol, and should have
a lower value.

I'll have to give it some thought.

-b

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Postby lilGenie » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:19 pm

I have been using BAR almost exclusively since I have begun playing this
game. I found BAR to be more accurate in long range combat than on short
quarter combat, where as with STG44, I felt that I got more kills. Perhaps,
because it got larger clip but in those close combat situations, STG certainly
does better than BAR. And definitely, BAR has more recoil than STG44.

Is it possible that BAR bullet does more damage than STG44? I am not an
expert on real guns but looks like STG44 uses standard 9mm bullet. Would
that be a reason for less modifier points for BAR?
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Postby Bobby » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:48 pm

The BAR and Stg44 recoil rates are the same. The Stg44 has a much
larger clip - about 1/3 larger than the BAR - and a faster ROF. That's
why it feels like recoil is worse, I guess (shooting faster, more bullets
will throw the barrel up further.)

Waldo did a series of tests in a shooting range. You can see the results
and download the map to test for yourself here. It also includes the map
source, if you want to tweak it yourself.

-b

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Postby sgt_hork » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:43 pm

I think the pistols should both be a bit higher than they are, something like 0.2 higher for each one.

The .45 is 0.1 higher than the p38 because the p38 has slightly better accuracy and does a bit more dammage than the .45, I think the 0.1 difference is fair between the two.

The pistols definitely shouldn't have the same modifier as the c96 or the sniper rifles (both easier to kill with). I'd like to go for a ballsy kill with a pistol over the sniper rifle and get rewarded for it.
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Postby Cpt Ukulele » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:43 pm

Yeah I guess the pistols could be just a tad higher.

I'm fine with the C96 having a higher modifier than the Carbine: it becomes unreliable to useless at distances other than close quarters, and you end up dry pretty quick with it (with a cone of fire so large that there's no practical way of conserving ammo). Besides, raising the Carbine would mean more points to Enigma, and we all know we can't afford to give more points to Enigma.

I'd say the main thing is the BAR/STG; the modifiers could almost be the other way around, in my opinion (or at the very least, made equal). I guess 1.3 for the BAR, against 1.2 for the STG would be fairer. The STG magazine size advantage is HUGE!!1! No, really. With the shortened BAR reload time, all other characteristics are about the same for the two guns, but I find the magazine size really makes a difference.
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Postby Rommel » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:28 am

The P38 gets a couple more bullets, thats the only difference I see with the Colt.
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Postby Spud » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:25 pm

you know i kinda have to agree with the STG/BAR changing .... i can do thing s with the STG that i wouldn't dream of with the bar. I will use last night on boughda as an example i would run over the tank and have enough ammo to kill 2/3 guys before a reload. I KNOW i can't do that with the bar ... it just doesn't kill people fast enough maybe that being the fire rate or just the lack of bullets but killing 1/2 at a time is almost the max for the bar.

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Postby Enigma » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:47 pm

I'm not sure on the exact point values to assign the guns, but will do a test tonight with Waldo's map (to test accuracy of the weapons in question only). I've been meaning to do one, so perhaps this will actually get my lazy butt to load up the firing range.

Waldo has neglected to test a fair amount of weapons, and also said that the MG42 and 30Cal seemed to be the same(!). To be fair to him, it does take a long time to test out all of the weapons; I've tested roughly half of them by myself (though the bar/stg weren't of interest to me at the time)

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Postby Enigma » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:34 pm

I'm now done testing the MG's and support weapons. A few interesting things I found out:

The BAR holds 20 rounds, while the STG44 holds 30.

The *vertical* recoil is exactly the same on both the BAR & STG44. I came to this conclusion by shooting 20 rounds (in single or full auto). Each time I rose up to the same vertical angle.

I'm not sure of any decent way to test the horizontal recoil. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.

Sorry for the crappy formatting, but here are the support/mg results

Edit: I'll have to do some carbine vs C96 tests for laughs. Tomorrow...

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Postby Cpt Ukulele » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:28 am

Thanks Enigma. Well, if anything, the cone of fire of the BAR would appear to be ever so slightly larger than the STG's. 20 rounds vs. 30, I still think there's a case for changing the modifiers there...

About the MGs, I think the current modifers are okay. Mainly, it's higher rate of fire vs. greater accuracy at range. But since most MG kills are not gotten at range (MG easily picked up by snipers and riflemen, and Source maps relatively tight), it's a little easier for the 42 to shine, thanks to its RoF.
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Postby Enigma » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:40 am

Updated with Carbine vs C96 results. Still have yet to do the RoF, maybe tomorrow. Wanted to do a few more weapons as well as time permits.

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Postby Rommel » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:53 am

I can tell you that it takes 2 hits to center mass to kill somebody with the STG, 3 if you hit just the legs and one to the head...I had a little practice with a AFK verman when nobody was on in the morning.
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Postby Bib Fortuna » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:57 am

Enigma... your sig image is pretty wide there man.
"But then an even greater force emerged, “the un,” and “the un” un-Nazi’d the world, forever!"

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Postby Quisp » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:19 pm

Bib Fortuna wrote:Enigma... your sig image is pretty wide there man.


I think in this case you can change the word "sig" to "ego" :lol:

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Postby Rommel » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:36 pm

Bib Fortuna wrote:Enigma... your sig image is pretty wide there man.


Fits on my screen...
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