Weapons Points Modifiers: why?

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Which is the superior weapon?

STG44
13
59%
BAR
7
32%
Both are equally good (or bad)
2
9%
Don't know
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 22
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Postby Rommel » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:59 pm

I just noticed I am the highest ranked with a K:D that is below 1, .8...The next person is Kami with a .95 K:D.
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Postby xKaMIkaZex » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:27 pm

Rommel wrote:I just noticed I am the highest ranked with a K:D that is below 1, .8...The next person is Kami with a .95 K:D.



huh?

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Postby Cpt Ukulele » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:18 pm

Dedeye wrote:I don't know about you guys, but I usually reload after a kill or two with the STG44, so clip size doesn't really come into it in my view.


Well, even if you personally decide not to take the fullest advantage of the gun's capabilities, I'm sure you can see the STG's larger magazine will give the ascendancy to players who will. One thing that markedly improved my play was to stop my obsessive-compulsive mania of reloading right after a kill or a couple kills, with still half a mag full. Can't tell you how many times I'd get caught with my pants down, so to speak. Running the mag much deeper and actually choosing the time and the spot to reload made things much better.

Let's say you use around 7 rounds on average to down someone. Now you turn a corner in a hot area and drop two guys, that's 14 bullets. With a BAR, you have 6 rounds left in your mag; not enough to drop a 3rd enemy on average, and definitely too close to "empty" to confidently push forward. With an STG, you have, not 6, but 16 rounds left; that's enough for 2 other kills (still on average), and definitely good enough to turn that next corner and see what's next, or to continue that push right away and get the area under control.

Sometimes that will be the difference between clearing 2 guys, rushing the last flag with an almost empty mag and being dropped by a 3d and last enemy, and clearing 2 guys, rushing the last flag, clearing a last and 3rd enemy, and cap out the map. Alternatively, get at a bunch of guys from their back. With a BAR, you're gonna get several of them, and you know you'll also probably die because you don't have enough rounds to finish the job. With a STG, you have much more chances to drop everyone and live to tell the story.

Why is the STG the weapon with the most kills on the server, with the BAR already lagging 10,000 kills behind in 3rd or 4th position? Why would more experienced players choose to use the STG predominently? Why according to the official DoD:S war status reports, STG users get more kills per life than BAR users? Remember Promenin? I believe Bobby characterized him as "relentless". Very true, especially with an STG. With a BAR, he wasn't half bad either, but always became somewhat more "relenting". Why? Why? Why? 30 rounds vs. 20 rounds.

I mean, I'm simply at a loss to understand the reasonning behind a vote for the BAR. If anyone knows, please enlighten me. As of now, there's 4 votes for the BAR, against 10 for the STG. I'm so aggravated by those 4 votes I can't help but think they're the unfortunate result of a misclick, or the manifestation of some evil forum-goer eager to mess with my already fragile mental health.

Seriously, STG is a better gun, allows for a more aggressive play, allows for more caps and also more kills, and you receive more points for those kills... In the past, we have discussed to great lengths the addition of team-based point rewards, as well as their value, and also the bonuses appropriate for the new demolition mode. And yet, we have in front of our eyes a very clear example of an unfair and unbalanced stats points attribution and can't get around to correcting it. I'm not advocating a complete revamping of the weapons modifiers, but this one, oh this one, how can we let down the BAR users that are also paying attention to the stats?

Bleh, and I wanted to threaten a lengthy post about the issue, with a full recap of the argument and new (new!) evidence supporting it. I just don't get it, sorry if I seem to be mono-maniac. The worst part is that I don't give 2 thoughts about ranking myself...

Oh WELL...

P.S. There's no point in playing Ardennes anyway, expect maybe... yes maybe as a drinking game, I'm sure something could come out of it. Consequently, there's no point in playing Assault on Ardennes either.
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Postby Rommel » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:49 am

xKaMIkaZex wrote:
Rommel wrote:I just noticed I am the highest ranked with a K:D that is below 1, .8...The next person is Kami with a .95 K:D.



huh?



If you look at the Player Rankings and look at the K:D you'll notice 99% are above a 1:1 K:D...There are a few exceptions in the Top 50, Me and Darkness.

It was actually that stupid Cookie monster who has a .95, he had on your name at the time I posted so I didn't notice.
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Postby Dedeye » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:10 am

Ukelele, point taken on clip size. ( I try to reload in a safe place too.)

You wrote...
Why is the STG the weapon with the most kills on the server, with the BAR already lagging 10,000 kills behind in 3rd or 4th position?


One reason for this is that the Thompson is a superior weapon over BAR,
as the STG44 is superior to MP40. Strange that they are reversed.

STG44 kills- 41 569
Thompson kills- 37 774

Thompson seems to be fav of Allied soldiers. It seems to put a wall of shots,
sometimes I'll grab a Tommy off a dead Ally.( Noobs are less likely to know I'm a German ( going by gun Sounds))

I know, I know the STG44 is still a better weapon,(German Engineering?) what can I say, but,
Seig Heil ! :twisted:

Time to join Jerry, better weapons. :wink:
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Postby smitty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:14 am

P.S. There's no point in playing Ardennes anyway, expect maybe...
yes maybe as a drinking game, I'm sure something could come out of it.
Consequently, there's no point in playing Assault on Ardennes either.


I like Ardennes when people actually move forward and I play Assault.
I think more should on this map. You don't get the long range kills but
you do get the smoke (blocks snipers veiw helps team move forward)
and close quarter combat advantage (which you want when you move forward).

STG44 over the BAR fer shur.


-smitty

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Postby Cpt Ukulele » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:36 pm

Dedeye wrote:Thompson seems to be fav of Allied soldiers. It seems to put a wall of shots [...]


Yeah, I don't have a theory about that. :o All I know is I've been trying to use it from time to time and end up going back to the BAR in disgust. The cone of fire is so large for the Thompson and MP40, it's hard to stand for anything but the closest of encounters. Some people do use them effectively though, I guess it's a matter of play style.

Smitty, where is the close quarter combat on Ardennes? I've been looking for it, but all I found was death after a haystack.
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Postby smitty » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:06 am

Smitty, where is the close quarter combat on Ardennes? I've been looking for it, but all I found was death after a haystack.


Lol, yeah it is hard to move up sometimes.

-smitty

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Postby Dedeye » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:11 am

Maybe someone should mod Ardennes and add a building or two,
or burt out tanks and a little rubble. After all the map is constantly
being bombarded with 88's and bombs!
Also,
How come there aren't more maps with destructable walls and such?

Remenber Caen from 1.3 when you could blow up the sniper nests over the
square? That was cool.
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Postby Major Catastrophe » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:18 am

I don't get the ardennes thing. It's a fun and challenging map! Neither team is favored, and there are multiple routes and tactics that work. Sure, you explode on occasion, but it only makes a great impact on the people who lay down near spawn. You can bet I have no problem with that. I wish they spontaneously exploded in every map!

That said, the garand is the best gun in the game. Works close up, and the iron sights make it a very nice sniper weapon.
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