Tracking stats by name, steam id and .....

All questions and comments about player stats should be addressed here.
User avatar
Posts: 2029
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:40 am

Tracking stats by name, steam id and .....

Postby The Spanish Inquisition » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:55 am

HLstatx and Psychostats both use a player's steam id as a unique global id for a players statistics. This means that you can change your name all you want but all stats will be tracked under that one steamid. The pros of this are that you can fiddle with your name all you want without worry of missing a good session being added to your stats. The con of this is if you share a steamid with a roommate, sibling, spouse, etc so that there is no way to separate who's killed what when.

An alternative is to track stats on steamid AND player name. In this case a new set of stats is kept for each name you choose. This solves the multiple players using one steamid problem. The con is that you may lose a good session of playing stats if you change your name for some reason. Conversely, this is a pro, if you are not feeling up to par you can alter your name and those stats won't be coalesced into your normal player name.

Another option is to provide an in-game 'say' command where you can turn on/off stats processing on certain sessions. For example, you could bind a say message like "warmup" and stats won't process your kills/deaths for 15min or so.

These are just some ideas as to how to handle stats processing to include those that can't track personal stats or feel they have bad data included in their stats due to lag, shitty map, noobs, or whatever.

Your thoughts?
Image Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

User avatar
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 9:02 am
Location: wherever my ashes blow

Postby Bobby » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:36 am

Why not steamID and custom cvar? Then it doesn't matter what name you're
using.

stats_uid = 0 (me)
stats_uid = 1 (roommate)

You'd add it to your autoexec.cfg.

This would also allow for fine-grained tracking:

stats_uid = 2 (me, sniping)

You'd want to limit the number of slots per player to keep the database
clean, 10 slots would be more than enough.

It could be a small table, steamID and uid, to produce a unique user
key.

This would require a server-side plugin, but if you're serious about
collecting meaningful data, there are events in the engine that aren't
usually logged - you'd want your own plugin to listen for and log those
events.

If you're looking at ranking, I'd also work on a system that analyses stats
per map, and comes up with a way to handicap the value of flags. For
example, flags are easier to get on flash and anzio then they are on
argentan. Also, bonuses for wins should be handicaped - allied wins on
avalanche should carry more weight than axis wins (flags as well.)

This ties in with the plugin too - you could handicap individual flags (the
enemy's first flag being worth more than taking your own first flag.)

-b

User avatar
Posts: 3547
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:45 pm

Postby Quisp » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:09 pm

So what you are saying here is, Statwhores have more options to keep
their stats high. Oh what a wonderful thing.

NOT!!!

User avatar
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: Swinging on the spiral....

Postby Fire Marshal » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:10 pm

So, something like having all play time assigned to the steamid, but maybe allowing the
option of breaking the stats down further by clicking on a specific name within the steamid.

That might appeal to some people. People with multiple players per steamid that is.

I am against toggling stats on and off, that is ridiculous. People shouldn't say "Hell, I'm
playing awful today, let me turn off stats recording." Stats should record everything IMO.

I don't know jack about how to implement this, if possible even. I like Bobby's idea
about weighting flags, perhaps based on which side wins more on the map etc...

edit: Quip posted as I posted. And my sentiments exactly.

User avatar
Posts: 2029
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:40 am

Postby The Spanish Inquisition » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:07 pm

Oh Bobby, I hate to dash that dream but I can't really see me writing a plugin for this. I know we talked about this before but I'm not the guy. The devil is in the details. Plus I'm looking a centralized repository which would make it hard to force admins to keep a minor plugin up to date.

Quisp, I never said anything about rankings. These would be personal stats. A minor goal is to reduce statwhoring by not having an overall "skill' ranking which currently in all the stats packages is a bit of a dubious computation. I am looking more toward analysis of the data. Player sessions and map sessions, and some server reports will be about it. If there are rankings they will not be any aggregate over-reaching ones, just localized and focused rankings, like "Most tk'ed after having a nice kill streak" or "Mr. Grenade Fumblina." Take a look at this linkto see the flavor I would like to implement.

Take a lesson from Google page ranks because it is EXACTLY the same scenario. Google does not let people know exactly how they compute page ranks for the explicit reason of discouraging page rank whores. So to combat stat whores you simply don't let them know the function to compute the 'skill' ranking, and when necessary, keep modifying it.

I don't want to get off topic by talking about how to compute things, like flag values. All that stuff is down the road. I mainly wanted to see what people thought about being able to have personal stats and be able to choose BEFORE HAND NOT AFTER OR DURING if they would like to delay or stop stats computation for that upcoming player session. Remember, currently on both HLstatx and Psychostats, stats are only computed when there are at least 12 people on the server so already there is a huge existing condition where some play data doesn't get computed. I have to make a choice soon with the direction I would like to go with this and just wanted to be able to include as many people as possible. If that means not many people care about separating stats from when they are just 'having fun' or 'serious business' mode or of course for peeps who play on the same steam id then that makes it a hell of a lot easier for me.
Image Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

User avatar
Posts: 3547
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:45 pm

Postby Quisp » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:47 pm

In the larger debate I still see it as a way for statwhores to use the
information to keep rankings up.

After reviewing my personal stats I see when I play flash I lose 200 points
on average, I then don't play flash. Or I get 15 shovels on Donner so I will
vote for donner every chance I can. Or again if I play dijon I can get 20
cap blocks camping the bar.

Well thats fine and dandy with personal stats but when it effects the
ranking system then, once again it gives the statwhores more information
too keep or increase their stats.

Now on the other hand if you put in personal stats and did away with the
ranking system, with no clear way to see who is ranked #1,2,3 etc. Then
I don't see it as a problem. But if this personal data is going to sit side
by side with the ranked system I only see it as a way for statwhores to
take full advantage to increase their statwhoring to the next level.

Maybe a way to answer this would be to vote on something like this
example.

1, use personal and ranked stats
2, just ranked stats
3, just personal stats (with no clear way to see who is ranked #1,2,3 on
an over all stat ranking sytem).

Personally I won't hold my breath for a positive solution here, or for a
better stats system. Although I would vote for #3 in a heartbeat if given
the chance.

I would love to have better personal stats but if it means giving more info
to the statwhores in a ranked system then I don't want it.

User avatar
Posts: 2785
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 4:08 am
Location: Santa Clarita, CA

Postby Steamboat_Willy_Sr » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:46 pm

I <3 Statswhores :D

I like the warm up mode, no stats compiled for a few minutes. I always suck for the first five or six deaths until I can figure out how the teams are playing. And..................













I like having lots of stats. Sure, they can be manipulated to one's advantage (at which point rankings become meaningless) but I see that as almost making for a new challenge within the game itself. I don't doubt that many will disagree with this form of statwhorery, but we all play our games for our own reasons.

I keep an eye on my sessions. When I start having red nights consecutively, I adjust to a more defensive, campy kind of play style. After I string a few green nights together I tend to become more bold and belligerent towards the enemy. Either way I'm getting what I came onto the game for enjoyment wise. I don't care what the rankings show, aside from who the top statswhores are. Rank players daily, weekly, monthly, complile all their actions in personal stats, blow them the hell up, it really shouldn't matter.
Image "The only way I'm going to see some action is to bust myself to private"

Image

User avatar
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 9:02 am
Location: wherever my ashes blow

Postby Bobby » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:13 pm

Wimp. The SDK has an example plugin. It's one module, no more than 100
lines of code.

It's not like I'm asking for an in-game VGUI stats overlay with real-time
charts and graphs. :P

-b

User avatar
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:28 pm
Location: Penticton, Canada

Postby Spud » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:41 pm

Bobby wrote:
It's not like I'm asking for an in-game VGUI stats overlay with real-time
charts and graphs. :P

-b


Well if he won't ask for it i sure as hell will!!!!! SHOW ME THE VGUI!!!!

Return to Server Stats

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest